I've come across an Enneagram website, Ocean Moonshine, that's new to me (though it's obviously not new, as it features an active message board.) I recommend his type descriptions, and I especially enjoyed reading his lists of exemplars of each type. As is usual with those lists, though, there were some people whose given types either surprised me or just struck me as wrong:
Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld: I've heard somewhere that they are 6s and have just accepted that; Ocean Moonshine calls them 8s. I guess I don't have an opinion. You?
Socrates: 8? He seems like an iconic 6 to me -- the Questioner. "I am the wisest man alive, for I know that I know nothing." The gadfly role is a 6 energy.
Jon Stewart: 7. I think he's got to be 6w7. Everybody else exactly like that is! David Letterman and Steven Colbert, for example. I'm not sure they let anyone but 6s host the Oscars.
Paula Abdul: 9. I think 2. You?
I was pleased to see Dr. Phil typed as an 8 because that's what I think, too.
Now I'm just going to throw out a few names without telling you what Ocean Moonshine said: William Wordsworth, William Shakespeare, and Soren Kierkegaard. What do you think?
He typed George W. Bush as a 9. To me, Bush's type is not very clear. Cindi argues that he's a 7; so does Tom Condon.
Now I'm all for typing fictional characters, but I was a little taken aback when he said that Santa Claus is a 9, not a 2, despite the gift-giving, with Mrs. Claus exemplifying more the 2 energy! And of course, no reason given. But after sitting with it for a few beats I was like... yeah, I can see what he's saying.
Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld: I've heard somewhere that they are 6s and have just accepted that; Ocean Moonshine calls them 8s. I guess I don't have an opinion. You?
Socrates: 8? He seems like an iconic 6 to me -- the Questioner. "I am the wisest man alive, for I know that I know nothing." The gadfly role is a 6 energy.
Jon Stewart: 7. I think he's got to be 6w7. Everybody else exactly like that is! David Letterman and Steven Colbert, for example. I'm not sure they let anyone but 6s host the Oscars.
Paula Abdul: 9. I think 2. You?
I was pleased to see Dr. Phil typed as an 8 because that's what I think, too.
Now I'm just going to throw out a few names without telling you what Ocean Moonshine said: William Wordsworth, William Shakespeare, and Soren Kierkegaard. What do you think?
He typed George W. Bush as a 9. To me, Bush's type is not very clear. Cindi argues that he's a 7; so does Tom Condon.
Now I'm all for typing fictional characters, but I was a little taken aback when he said that Santa Claus is a 9, not a 2, despite the gift-giving, with Mrs. Claus exemplifying more the 2 energy! And of course, no reason given. But after sitting with it for a few beats I was like... yeah, I can see what he's saying.
5 comments:
No opinions on Cheney and Rumsfeld.
Agree on Socrates, Stewart and Dr. Phil.
I'd put Abdul on the 9/3 continuum. She has a dead-eyed flatness that I've only ever seen in the primary types. Could be the painkillers, though.
Guesses on the mystery celebs: Wordsworth - 4; Shakespeare 7, Kierkegaard -- 5.
On why Santa might be a 9 -- just one job, performed with regularity, for the long haul. Stamina, rather than quick energy. Is able to get in and out of homes invisibly. Sometimes called "the wise old elf". Emphasis on wise.
Abdul: My reason for thinking 2 is how skewed positive her comments are on American Idol) and how it visibly pains her to say anything negative. And yeah, 9s are not known for pointing out uncomfortable truths, either, but it seems to come really natural to Abdul to blow smoke to help the contestants feel good about themselves, which I associate with 2.
Wordsworth: Yeah, I also think 4, and archetypal 4 at that. Ocean Moonshine says 7.
Shakespeare: You and Ocean Moonshine agree on 7. I also like 7, but have just recently read 4 on a different website.
Kierkegaard: It's tough to come across as very authoritative on the personality of a philosopher you've never read. (Or if not, it should be.) I've always assumed 5; maybe our friend who's a big fan and has read everything Kierkegaard ever wrote has an opinion. I mean, I think he does have an opinion, and it's 5.
Re: Santa. I think of him saying "Ho, Ho, Ho," and I think... well, these days I think "Who you calling ho, bitch?" but traditionally... "Ho, ho, ho" seems really laid-back. I don't think pride is his issue.
Come to think of it, and speaking of existentialists (i.e., Kierkegaard), Ocean Moonshine also types Camus as a 4. That can't possibly be right. Camus's The Stranger has that coldness that always creeps me out when I read certain books or see certain movies about 5s (another ex. = the movie Blue with Juliette Binoche. And Turtle Diary.) Which is odd, since I love 5s in real life.
Hey guys! Thanks for the blog. I'd just like to point out that "The Enneagram - Information from the Underground", (Ocean-Moonshine), was a collaborative effort. Most of the writing was done by the infamous Marie, Carlos, John, and Jase. Ocean just wrote a little and pulled it all together and published. We can be found discussing the enneagram at
http://xsorbit29.com/users5/ediots/index.php
Stop by if you can. Congrats on your blog!
...Ocean
Come to think of it...Wilson probably is more famous than Pinker. The site is being changed accordingly.
Oh and Kierkegaard...sooooo obviously a Four with Five, big wing for sure, soc/sp instinctual stacking. And Camus...another Four...and he doesn't even have a Five wing. Read a biography of his life if you have any doubts, or even Myth of Sisyphus...although I agree, some of his writing is creepy cold.
All IMHO of course!
But thanks all for your comments and feedback!
marie
I will have to stop by the site you mentioned, Ocean. I can see Kierkegaard as a 4. That whole taking a really long time to process a loss and move on thing really resonates throughout his life story. As for Camus, I'd have to do more reading to be more sure. Russ Hudson did mention him as a 5 at a workshop I attended.
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